I don't watch Mad Men (but always wanted to) & I think there is probably a lot to learn from the show. This Forbes article writen by +Victoria Pynchon brings up more than a few good points cross referenced to the television show.
With risk of potential clients seeing this, I will admit I am horrible at negotiating. At least when something I really want is on the line. Early in my career I did exactly what the Mad Men character Peggy did – push a piece of paper across the table for a horrendously under-valued amount because I was afraid to loose an opportunity.
The strange thing is, when I really don't have my heart set on something (or am looking to avoid it) I will throw insanely wild numbers on the table. More than a few times my 'bid' has been taken right away. A number that I 'added a zero to the end of' was seen as such a steal the offer was snatched up without a fight.
My lesson? ADD TWO ZEROS TO THE END OF MY PRICE 😉
#blog
Embedded Link
What Men Do To Outearn Women – Forbes
We continue to accept unequal conditions in the workplace serving lesser clients for lower pay, fewer promotional opportunities and far less respect than our work product deserves.
Google+: Reshared 7 times
Google+: View post on Google+
Honestly, if you cut the over 250k segment of the market, and you ignore returning mothers to the work place, the average woman actually makes more than the average male.
I bid low because I lack confidence in myself…
I wonder how much it matters about self confidence. I will bid low, partially to get the job but also because of an insecurity about my skills. I never consider doing that because I'm a woman. Though my insecurity could be directly because of being a woman.
?t's trough..
Thats weird, I posted in response to you, but my post is above you.
Yea, that happens a lot on G+, though I don't know why.
This is part of the puzzle, but not all. Don't forget that women are often not taken seriously in the first place, so that it's more difficult to negotiate even if you have the confidence and ability to negotiate. There's a lot of layers to this 😛
However, I have also made my best deals when I really didn't care about the outcome. It's very interesting to suddenly realize you're in the middle of making a great deal. This is why, for example, I always get my next car while I still have my current one. No desperation 🙂
🙂
I do seriously believe that women, who enter the work place, leave for a bit to go have babies, and then come back (which is fine, if thats what they want to do), seriously hampers their work experience level overall, making employers see them as out of touch.
If they're off for a year or so, no big deal, but when they raise a kid till they are 5, and then when the kid goes to school, go back to work, thats 5 years without work experience, without training. That brings down the payrate of the "average" women employee.
It also makes being an executive almost impossible, which is why the 250k+ range is out of reach for mothers that took time off.
The same would happen to stay at home fathers.
Now the "not taken seriously" thing is becoming less and less true over time (it still is an issue at the moment somewhat), as a larger, and larger group of middle management is becoming women.
And if both mothers and fathers did this, then that shortsighted mindset wouldn't be too big a deal. In fact, it would probably then be seen as something perfectly normal, not something to punish people for.
I've never understood this attitude, frankly.
Equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcomes.
Maybe I get that viewpoint because 100% of my bosses are female.
Infact, at my work, out of 38 people, we have 6 males, and one is the janitor. I work as an IT admin at a library.
But it's funny how often people conflate the two, and use the latter to shut the former down.
Care to explain what you mean, cindy?
Equality of opportunity is not the same thing as equality of outcome. But people conflate the two, and use arguments that apply to [attempts to make equality of outcome] but not to [attempts to make equality of opportunity] in order to deny any [any attempts to make equality of opportunity] happen in the first place.
Cultural tacit understanding. The unspoken things are the strongest. As long as women ( really any group) has to cry out for help; there is a tacit understanding- this group is unequal. We make it so through our cultural treatment of a population.
My story is that I was afraid no one would give me the money if I asked for it. But on a dare from my girl friend that is in the $200,000+ club, I finally asked for six figures and got it. Mind you I'm very experienced and educated, and that's why they pay me.
I'm not suggesting that women as a whole don't need equal opportunity assistance. They totally do. Also, in other news, men are often asked to do more physical tasks, even when it isn't suited to them (I have a herniated disk, yet I get asked all the time to carry things). There is always room for improvement.
I'm mainly suggesting the often cited statistic of "women make 71 cents for ever dollar a man makes" is horribly flawed.
Men are no smarter than women.. If they do the same job as a man then the pay should be equal
+William Johnston Even when the level of experience is different?
Given the same level of experience, qualifications etc, women should be paid the same as a man, for the same position… its just sometimes they aren't due to life getting in the way.
+Nobilis Reed If they do the same job with equal experience then the pay should be the same, and if the woman has more experience then she should get more pay ….. than the man .. But if they are equal it should be the same, we do not live in the 1940's anymore where most women were housewives that worked on weekends to help out with family expenses
That still does not mean that the "average" woman should be paid as much as the "average" man… a woman of a given qualification level should be paid on the same level as a man at the same qualification level. Qualification bias due to stay-at-home motherhood changes the "average" value.
Did you or did you not see the part where I said that one of the things that needs to happen is that fathers take time off for new children?
I did not see that part, no. Sorry.